Daran complains on Blamerbell Briefs that there's not enough speculation on the blogosphere as to how Plaid's 15 AMs will vote when it comes to choosing which coalition to recommend to their members.
Well, here's some speculation for your delight and pleasure:
Rainbow
Jocelyn Davies
Dafydd Elis-Thomas
Christopher Franks
Alun Ffred Jones
Elin Jones
Gareth Jones
Ieuan Wyn Jones
Dai Lloyd
Janet Ryder
Red-Green
Mohammad Asghar
Nerys Evans
Bethan Jenkins
Helen Mary Jones
Rhodri Glyn Thomas
Leanne Wood
Contrary speculation is of course welcome.
Monday, 18 June 2007
How will they vote?
Posted by Simon Dyda at 17:58
Labels: Notes, Plaid Cymru
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36 comments:
Evening. Just replied to your figures on Blamer - had heard from a Plaid pal that it was the same split, but the other way. The names here make sense, though. Interesting times...
'They tell us that a new survey by Populus about the attitudes of MPs reveals not only deep underlying disagreements between Labour and Conservative MPs on key social values, but also big divisions within the Tory party. David Cameron has failed to persuade a large number of his own backbenchers to accept his liberal views on morality and race:
On several key questions Tory MPs are deeply divided. For instance, against the view of Mr Cameron, just 46 per cent of Tory MPs agree that gay couples should have the same rights as heterosexual couples, with 54 per cent disagreeing. For comparison, 83 per cent of Labour MPs and 92 per cent of Lib Dems agree.
Similarly, there is a 52 to 48 per cent split among Tories on whether “the diverse mix of races, cultures and religions now found in our society has improved Britain”. By contrast, 92 per cent of Labour MPs agree, as do all Lib Dems surveyed. And while Labour MPs are virtually unanimous (94 per cent) in agreeing that “one of the things that would most improve life in Britain today is people being more tolerant of different ethnic groups and cultures”, that is the view of only 67 per cent of Tory MPs.
The survey also shows that if you scratch beneath the surface, MPs from the two main parties have very different views on public services. Roughly nine out of ten Labour and Lib Dem MPs agree that “if we were starting with a blank piece of paper and designing a health system for scratch, we would still create something very much like the NHS”, but only two fifths of Conservative members agree.
Private schools appear as a sharp dividing line. More than four fifths of Labour MPs (85 per cent) believe “it would be better for the country if everyone who sends their children to private schools chose to send them to state schools instead”, a view backed by only 7 per cent of Tory MPs.'
These are the sorts of people you want to bring back to power in Wales? You need to think about joining them, if these are the attitudes you are comfortable with.......
Thought I would add a frison of competition
Rainbow
Jocelyn Davies
Dafydd Elis-Thomas
Christopher Franks
Alun Ffred Jones
Elin Jones
Gareth Jones
Ieuan Wyn Jones
Red-Green
Mohammad Asghar
Nerys Evans
Bethan Jenkins
Helen Mary Jones
Rhodri Glyn Thomas
Leanne Wood
Janet Ryder
Dai Lloyd
I think you will find that Dafydd Elis Thomas is for the Plaid Labour coalition. Other than that I concur with the Ordovicis list.
Delighted and pleasured indeed...
Will give it some thought too
I have floated back and forth between the Rainbow & the Red-Green, but I am becoming convinced that the Rainbow is the best way forward.
The reason for this is that Labour can be bullied into a referendum as part of the Red-Green deal, but they will probably decide to pursue this option anyway, as a counter to a Conservative government at Westminster.
This destroys the argument that only the RG can deliver a referendum, so we might as well go for the rainbow.
HMJ (& GJ on the other side)& others need to put their party/tribal prejudices to one side and agree what is the best for Wales.
I think that at least two of those on the Rainbow side are wrong.....possibly even three or four....whilst there is maybe one from the red-green gone the other way.
I'd estimate as it is at the moment it is an 8-7 split for Red-Green with the momentum going that way
These are the sorts of people you want to bring back to power in Wales? You need to think about joining them, if these are the attitudes you are comfortable with.......
No need to sulk, dear. You conveniently forgot to mention Iraq, by the way ;)
Thought I would add a frison of competition
Rainbow
Dai Lloyd is for the rainbow, and made that clear last sunday on the Politics Show.
I'd estimate as it is at the moment it is an 8-7 split for Red-Green with the momentum going that way
Names not numbers, please
There is very little in it and the final vote will depend on what Labour can offer along with their three main carrots. It will also depend on how the Labour MPs behave between now and the end of the month.
The Plaid AMs will also have to take into account how they think their National Council will vote. Do they really want to recommend something that their NC rejects?
Peter Black pretending he knows how Plaid will vote-how sad! Maybe he should prioritise on how his own party votes.
Plaid's AMs will have to decide who they trust least out of the two options. This will be a balance between the Lib Dems and the Labour MPs and it's a difficult call. It might just go red/green in the end because Labour have a little more loyalty to their party, whereas the Lib Dems are all over the place.
I have heared that daf El will go red-Green. he is primary interested in securing a referendum and believes red-green is the best way to do that. I also think Jocelyn Davies will be Red-Green, but much the same as Adam Price in working with whatever but stating red-green as her preference.
I thought Oscar was in favour of the Rainbow??
His Lordship moves in mysterious ways and may well be coming over all nostalgic about those National Left days. Janet Ryder is flying the blue flag. Ieuan continues to be squeaky clean and 'wants the best for Wales', provided it coincides with the best for Ieuan. Gareth Jones will stick with his Tories and Masons through thick and thin.
thought Oscar was in favour of the Rainbow??
Who?
In hard-headed times like these - no party can trust any other - I'm always dubious about "the hand of history" or "what's best for Wales". That means they can't win by debate and reason.
On 2 traditional issues for Plaid, the Tory thing simply can't deliver. For a referendum, it needs 40+ votes plus support at Westminster. On a new Welsh Language Measure, the Tories are against new rights in Wales and Europe.
Mohammad
You don't know Plaid very well, do you?
There's at least one name in your first list that screams out as being very wrong indeed:)
Mohammad
You don't know Plaid very well, do you?
If I said you were a wit, I'd be half right. ;)
There's at least one name in your first list that screams out as being very wrong indeed:)
Obviously not loud enough for you to venture a name, Ciaran. Don't be scared! ;)
On 2 traditional issues for Plaid, the Tory thing simply can't deliver. For a referendum, it needs 40+ votes plus support at Westminster. On a new Welsh Language Measure, the Tories are against new rights in Wales and Europe.
(yawn) Can't the anti-rainbow gang come up with any new arguments?
The Tories are for a new Welsh Language Act (read the All Wales Accord) and a referendum, which will only need 6 Labour AM votes to pass through. I refuse point blank to believe that pro devolutionists amongst the Labour AMs are going to vote against law making powers just because they are in opposition.
You don't believe that Labour will keep the whip and vote out a Parliament that is not of their choosing?
You don't know Labour very well either, do you?
You don't know Labour very well either, do you?
Obviously neither do you.
Ordovicius, you can read the Tory coalition document (written by their chief press officer Richard Hazelwood) all you like and you will not find any commitment to a new Welsh Language Act which gives legal rights to Welsh speakers. Then, if you read the Tories own press statement on the Thomas Cook scandal, they say quite clearly that they only support 'voluntary' measures in the private sector. And if you read Gill Evans Euro-MP's blog, she reveals what they've done in the EP.
And at Westminster, their so-called Shadow Secretary of State, Mrs Gillham, wants to give their MPs the right to block Assembly Measures in the Commons.
I think you will find the real world is not as rainbow-coloured as you might think or hope. Read the evidence for yourself and tell me if I'm wrong.
ordo,
i have to agree with the above post. I very much doubt that if they are ousted into opposition you will find any Labour AM's voting with the rainbow to secure a referendum!
think you will find the real world is not as rainbow-coloured as you might think or hope. Read the evidence for yourself and tell me if I'm wrong.
I stand by what I have said. I'm not here to please the left,
;)
Ordovicius,
Is Plaid a socialist party or not?
If so you need to leave it. If not it needs to change its stated values and aims.
If so you need to leave it. If not it needs to change its stated values and aims.
Ah, yet another newcomer who mistakenly believes that I am a member of Plaid Cymru!
"Ordovicius - a free range Welsh nationalist". I think not. You'll get done under the Trades Descriptions Act.
If you're so hung up on power at any price, gawd help better rights for Welsh speakers.
If you're so hung up on power at any price,
What are you babbling on about, dear boy? As far as I'm aware I'm not about to be empowered by any developments in the Bay
Ordovicius - a free range Welsh nationalist". I think not. You'll get done under the Trades Descriptions Act.
Wrong again, oh sulky one. That is exactly what I am. That my "free range" views don't suit yours, well that's your problem, not mine. Come back when the zits clear up, there's a good lad.
Ordo, the Welsh language thing is not my view but a statement of facts.
If you are not even prepared to look in case you get infected by 'left-wing' views, that hardly bodes well for 'rainbow' tolerance and objectivity. Come to think of it, the response of many 'rainbow'-fanatics is reminiscent of 1914 or Falklands war fever.
So for now, more legal rights for Welsh speakers is a socialist preserve. If that's the case, we'll gladly take up the cause.
How did you know about the zits?
If you are not even prepared to look in case you get infected by 'left-wing' views, that hardly bodes well for 'rainbow' tolerance and objectivity. Come to think of it, the response of many 'rainbow'-fanatics is reminiscent of 1914 or Falklands war fever.
On the contrary, it is the RedGreen brigade who refuse any arguments other than their own, and show the weakness of such arguments by poo-pooing the rest of us as "Tories" or "Rainbow fanatics" rather than entertain any debate.
Plaid can lead or follow, it's as simple as that.
How did you know about the zits?
Elementary, Dr Watson... ;)
It's not rocket science, Sanddef. It was in last week's Golwg!
It's not rocket science, Sanddef. It was in last week's Golwg!
You're under the mistaken impression that I read Golwg on a regular basis. So are you actually going to name someone, or not?
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