Thomas Cook have banned the use of the Welsh language at its Bangor branch -despite the fact that at least half of its customers speak Welsh- because the manageress is a monoglot English speaker.
According to sources at Y Cymro:
The whole thing began when some of the staff started wearing the bilingual badges supplied by Bwrdd yr Iaith (these are to show customers that they have a choice of which language to use). Then, because there are more English than Welsh speakers working at the branch in Bangor the manageress decided to ban workers there speaking to eachother in Welsh. Obviously the manageress is monoglot English.
This is a brilliant example of why the policy of leaving the rights of Welsh speakers in the private sector to the "good will" of the companies themselves just does not work. This is why we need a new Welsh Language Act, so that shortsighted bigots like these can't get away with this kind of idiocy. Thomas Cook responds:
"Thomas Cook requests that all staff speak English when discussing work-related matters in the work place. This ensures clear communication at all times and is respectful to team members who do not speak other languages. Thomas Cook employs staff from many cultural backgrounds, therefore the company appreciates its staff may want to talk to colleagues in other languages for anything that is non business-related."
Due to number of students there people often don't realise that Bangor is a Welsh speaking city. Thomas Cook have no idea what they've let themselves in for.
28 comments:
This is another example of kick them when ther down. When will english people realise the Empire has gone. Open your eyes and see that there a a rainbow of languages across the UK aswell as around the world.
FFS makes me mad and i speak pigeon welsh!
Your argument doesnt add up with regard a welsh language act though. Although the Bangor store has an obvious demand for Cymraeg, most of the stores in Wales will not. So do you advocate that where there is demand it should be catered for? or compulsion and a blanket law that makes every store provide services in Welsh?
And isnt your demand negated by the fact that all the brochures are in English?
I dont see a Dysni Bydd brochure
Your argument doesnt add up with regard a welsh language act though
It does, actually. English speakers' paranoic fears that somehow a new Welsh Language Act will force them to all speak Welsh is not a good enough argument to deprive Welsh speakers from having their rights protected in the private sector.
And isnt your demand negated by the fact that all the brochures are in English?
Nope.
"It does, actually. English speakers' paranoic fears that somehow a new Welsh Language Act will force them to all speak Welsh is not a good enough argument to deprive Welsh speakers from having their rights protected in the private sector."
You are making the correct argument regarding bangor being a welsh speaking town and thus Welsh should be offered by all businesses wishing to trade within it. This seems a sensible request, but the welsh language act aims to compel private companies to have to offer their services in welsh in towns where welsh is spoken by 5% of people.
You argue Bangor's case of the obvious demand for welsh speaking services, this would indicate that demand is the key issue. I can assure there a hundreds maybe thousands of stores that dont offer welsh in Wales. Why havent you highlighted them? Thats right, because Bangor has a DEMAND for it.
You cannot trumpet the great lingustic diversity in Wales when it is only framed in a welsh language context. Wales is fragmented lingusitically and culturally, hence the lack of desire by many people for a welsh language act and impose a Wales-wide law on people.
What about foreign companies looking to invest? Will they welcome having that extra burden, particularly when do business in a predominantly english speaking area? Again it comes back to demand and lingusitic locality.
Why havent you highlighted them?
This blog post is about a wrong being done to Welsh speaking workers in a specific place, and is an example of how the current laws do not protect their rights. You are wandering off on quite a tangent. Are you suggesting that Welsh speaking workers should be banned from speaking Welsh with eachother in other parts of Wales or what?
"Are you suggesting that Welsh speaking workers should be banned from speaking Welsh with eachother in other parts of Wales or what?"
Of course not, you are talking about the rights of individuals now, not how a company wishes to operate a policy. They are different things, Thomas Cook chooses to conduct their business in English. Welsh speakers have the opportunity to contest this by talking with their actions, companies will react to demand and boycotts. If as you believe there is such widespread opposition then people wont go there no more. Thomas cook will have to react to that. I await the people of Bangor rising to that challenge...
Welsh speakers have the opportunity to contest this by talking with their actions
They shouldn't have to resort to actions. They should be protected by the law.
"They shouldn't have to resort to actions. They should be protected by the law."
Law isnt the answer my friend. A new law will make it more of a minefield. You need an independent board that can intervene at times like these, not a blanket law.
Do you believe that all businesses in all parts of Wales should be compelled to offer their services in Welsh?
Law isnt the answer my friend.
Of course it is. There is no reason why the people who speak the native language of this country should be treated as second class citizens. It is not acceptble, period.
Do you believe that all businesses in all parts of Wales should be compelled to offer their services in Welsh?
I believe that Welsh speakers should have the same rights in all parts of Wales that English speakers do.
"Wales is fragmented lingusitically and culturally,....." so says Clear Red Water. Untrue I say! We all share a common past - a history which binds us as one, a past to be proud of.
"Wales is fragmented lingusitically and culturally,....." so says Clear Red Water. Untrue I say! We all share a common past - a history which binds us as one, a past to be proud of.
I also disagree on both counts. We share the same culture, and with the exception of Pembrokeshire it is only in recent times that the Welsh language has been driven out of those areas where it is now a minority language.
The draft Welsh Language Measure prepared by Cymdeithas yr Iaith (http://cymdeithas.org/pdf/languagemeasure2007.pdf) if implemented would address the Thomas Cook situation. Sections 4(1)and (2) read:
(1) Every employer in Wales shall make appropriate arrangements to allow members of staff to work through the medium of Welsh.
(2) An employer may not prohibit the use of the Welsh language between employees or between employees and those receiving services provided by them if both parties consent to use the Welsh language.
There is nothing there that says that all businesses will be compelled to operate through Welsh alone. It talks of what is "appropriate" - what is appropriate in a burger bar in Bagillt is not necessarily appropriate in a travel agents in Bangor. However, the basic line is that nobody should have the right to dictate what language two individuals are using with each other whether at work or in the pub.
....you mention Pembrokeshire Ordovicius. The scenario you are talking about is only for the south of the county....the other half has a high percentage of Welsh speakers. That's where I originage from. A slight digression.....I travel through Pembroke every week.....I challenge anybody to find another town in Wales with so many Welsh flags. Very heartening. H'west now has a Welsh medium primary.
I think the answers to your questions are in the Thomas Cook response.
Firstly, the Y Cymro statement:
"The whole thing began when some of the staff started wearing the bilingual badges supplied by Bwrdd yr Iaith (these are to show customers that they have a choice of which language to use)."
> Thomas Cook has a uniform and a dress code. Did they ask before they wore the badges? If not, that would hardly have helped.
"Then, because there are more English than Welsh speakers working at the branch in Bangor the manageress decided to ban workers there speaking to each other in Welsh."
> Any evidence that that was the reason and that that was what she actually did?
"Obviously the manageress is monoglot English."
> That looks like a jumped-to conclusion, and a simple personal insult to someone implementing a policy.
Now the Thomas Cook statement:
"Thomas Cook requests that all staff speak English when discussing work-related matters in the work place. This ensures clear communication at all times and is respectful to team members who do not speak other languages. Thomas Cook employs staff from many cultural backgrounds, therefore the company appreciates its staff may want to talk to colleagues in other languages for anything that is non business-related."
From this statement:
1 - They have not banned Welsh, or stopped staff speaking to each other in Welsh for social conversation. They have only specified English for business conversations between staff.
2 - This statement does not stop customers being served in Welsh.
In summary, from this material I don't see how anyone's rights have been offended, and Thomas Cook's stance seems both reasonable and sensible. It looks like a storm in a teacup, with some activist trouble-making.
"They have only specified English for business conversations between staff".
So that's all right then!
Thomas Cook has a uniform and a dress code. Did they ask before they wore the badges? If not, that would hardly have helped.
The badges are supplied to the private sector by the Welsh Language Board, and are not contrary to dress code.
That looks like a jumped-to conclusion, and a simple personal insult to someone implementing a policy.
The manageress' decision was not based on any existing policy. Thomas Cook's statement does not predate her decision. They're making it up as they go along. It is, in fact, obvious that she is not a Welsh speaker, as no Welsh speaker living in a predominently Welsh speaking area would make nor impliment such a decision. This is also not the first time that such a thing has happened here in Welsh speaking Wales. You're clutching at straws here, Matt, and obviously not familiar with the situation.
1 - They have not banned Welsh, or stopped staff speaking to each other in Welsh for social conversation. They have only specified English for business conversations between staff.
2 - This statement does not stop customers being served in Welsh.
In summary, from this material I don't see how anyone's rights have been offended, and Thomas Cook's stance seems both reasonable and sensible. It looks like a storm in a teacup, with some activist trouble-making.
Now whose jumping to conclusions? Read the post again, for heaven's sake. The staff are not allowed to speak Welsh at work, period. As for trouble making activists, that only displays a personal bias and is also somewhat insulting as well as being naive. "Obviously if an injustice to Welsh speakers is highlighted it is in fact extremists having a whinge!" is basically what you are saying.
08 June 2007 22:44
This is an absolute disgrace. Banning people from speaking Welsh to each other whilst at work is an infringement of their human rights. A new 'Welsh Not'!
From my understanding, Cymuned and Cymdeithas will be working with each other on this issue, and if ‘Thomas Cook’ is unwilling to change its policy, then Direct Action is inevitable in my view.
This goes to prove, once again, the need for a New Welsh Language Act, giving the people of Wales the RIGHT to live, work and learn through the medium of Welsh.
From my understanding, Cymuned and Cymdeithas will be working with each other on this issue
This is correct.
matt wardman - "In summary, from this material I don't see how anyone's rights have been offended, and Thomas Cook's stance seems both reasonable and sensible. It looks like a storm in a teacup, with some activist trouble-making."
What's being denied, Mr Wardmann, is the the inalienable right of citizens to speak their own language in their own country, whenever and to whomever they please. Any suggestion that this is either 'reasonable' or 'sensible' is dangerous nonsense.
It's an insult to all Welsh people whatever their language.
Danfonwch eich cwynion at / send your complaints to:
"If you have any feedback or questions about one of our retail stores or agents, please contact Customer Relations - customer.relations@thomascook.com "
Yet another example of the Welsh taking it up the arse. Any self-respecting nation treated in this manner by any company would have them run out of town in a shake of a lamb's tail, but the Welsh simply whimper about race relations rules that 'may' have been broken. The English must be looking at us Welsh wondering why on Earth we don't grow a pair...
This is just a typical paranoid reaction from people who don't understand the language. If you don't understand it, ban it seems to be the attitude.
Not that I am a big fan of the Thomas Cook chain, but if I needed a reason not to use their branches then here it is.
I HAD HEARD FROM SOMEONE WHO KNOWS A WELSH SPEAKING MEMBER OF STAFF AT THE BANGOR OFFICE THAT THE ISSUE STARTED DUE TO AN INDIFFERENCE BETWEEN TWO WELSH SPEAKERS.THE MANAGER THEN USED THE WELSH LANGUAGE AS AN EXCUSE,SAYING SHE DIDNT KNOW THERE WAS AN ISSUE,BECAUSE THEY WERE ARGUING IN WELSH.JUST AN EXCUSE FOR AN INCOMPETENT MANAGER WHICH HAS BACKFIRED ON HER AND THE COMPANY
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